| jsbritton
- 06 May 2011
Total Posts: 421
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Juggernaut said: jasonstevens said:
Interesting no responses to my raising entry fees 50% question. |
Why is it interesting? |
but in reality ... the fees are already too high (in my opinion) for people that aren't actually going to have any real chance to win money. every time i went to a tournament (and always play like crap because i am working around the clock to help the promoter and awake for 72 miserable hours) i willingly pay the fee knowing it just simply pays the plane ticket of some top ten player. we need investors and sponsors for this ... not our own paychecks.
i don't like that.
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| Darth_Wafu
- 07 May 2011
Total Posts: 117
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jasonstevens said: jsbritton said: jasomn said ... Sponsorship money is minimal and always used to give cash prizes and trophies.
sarcasm i assume ... lol ...
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no sarcasm at all James.
Maybe I should claify. Sponsorship money is used to give cash prizes and trophies.
Interesting no responses to my raising entry fees 50% question. |
I think it is because the focus of the conversation was more about things we can do for free, so the question seems a little out of place.
Nick Geoffroy
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| jasonstevens
- 07 May 2011
Total Posts: 176
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| sigh
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| fupersly
- 07 May 2011
Total Posts: 231
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I would personally have no qualms about paying a higher entry fee, but only if it's guaranteed not to make the rich richer and the poor poorer. How could we guarantee that these extra fees would go toward promotion/advertising?
And frankly, while I like having trophies as a reminder of the events I've attended, I could live without them and still feel like I got my money's worth for playing Air Hockey for "free" for an entire weekend. That would be another way for promoters to "raise" more funds for promotion/advertising.
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| tableman
- 08 May 2011
Total Posts: 690
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Our entry fees went up significantly in the years after I split with Dynamo, mostly reflecting Dynamo's lack of significant sponsorship, as well as a trend among promoters to not seek and find other sponsorship. I wouldn't want to see entry fees go up any more; I think they're high enough, especially for the majority of players who don't win any cash back.
Ideally the money for advertising would come from sponsors, especially the table manufacturer(s) sponsoring the event. I hope to do that with my new table venture, but I must say, the landscape has changed somewhat: margins are much tighter, costs are higher, the industry is down, and there's less money available for advertising/promotion.
Foosball is one of the few sports that can get away with charging high entry fees to players who have a minuscule chance of winning it back. But foosball's numbers are down, and I think AH players are too mathematically intelligent to consistently pay those high entry fees.
Mark
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| jasonstevens
- 08 May 2011
Total Posts: 176
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fupersly said: I would personally have no qualms about paying a higher entry fee, but only if it's guaranteed not to make the rich richer and the poor poorer. How could we guarantee that these extra fees would go toward promotion/advertising?
And frankly, while I like having trophies as a reminder of the events I've attended, I could live without them and still feel like I got my money's worth for playing Air Hockey for "free" for an entire weekend. That would be another way for promoters to "raise" more funds for promotion/advertising. |
I am going to speak for myself as a sponsor and promoter........
"Making the rich richer and poor poorer". I assume you mean that you would pay extra as long as the promotorers (rich people?) don't make a profit and the players (poor people?) pay less? Kinda confusing.
I can guarantee you that if entry fees were doubled and I was a promoter I would GUARANTEE the extra revenue would be used for advertising and I would GUARANTEE I would take ZERO profit/income from the tournament I was involved in. I'm sure I can speak for every tournament that has ever been played that there was no money as profit. I know for a fact the Houston tournaments we spent EVERY cent raised from all sources to pay for everything the tournament cost. The Houston team even put money out of their own pockets to cover expenses.
I think your overall gist is you don't want to see promoters profit from the players. I agree with this and until some angel sponsor comes along or we start getting multi hundreds of people playing in tournaments this will not happen. In reality an angel sponsor (one that donates considerably more than has ever given before) has never been in AH and I just don't see it and it seems people want to move towards lower attendance (because some people say they don't care about large attendance in tournaments) in the tournaments which if you add the two together there will never be that magical "sweet spot". I hate to sound like Debbie Downer but that's just the reality I see. I would love to be proven wrong about an angel sponsor.
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| jasonstevens
- 08 May 2011
Total Posts: 176
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tableman said: Our entry fees went up significantly in the years after I split with Dynamo, mostly reflecting Dynamo's lack of significant sponsorship, as well as a trend among promoters to not seek and find other sponsorship. I wouldn't want to see entry fees go up any more; I think they're high enough, especially for the majority of players who don't win any cash back.
Ideally the money for advertising would come from sponsors, especially the table manufacturer(s) sponsoring the event. I hope to do that with my new table venture, but I must say, the landscape has changed somewhat: margins are much tighter, costs are higher, the industry is down, and there's less money available for advertising/promotion.
Foosball is one of the few sports that can get away with charging high entry fees to players who have a minuscule chance of winning it back. But foosball's numbers are down, and I think AH players are too mathematically intelligent to consistently pay those high entry fees.
Mark |
I agree sponsorship money should come from sponsors BUT there are not alot of sponsors knocking on the doors to give money to AH tournaments. Because sponsorship money is not a "given" and easy to get promoters have to use what revenue they get (entry fees and sponsorship money) and spend it to cover the costs to put on a tournament. What happens if a tournament cannot get sponsorship money? Well that tournament has to use entry fee money to cover expenses. To have a respectable tournament entry fees don't cover much in terms of giving almost all of it back in prize money (main expense). Trophies, shirts etc are also things that players expect and that has to be given.
Look back and think about sponsors and how many times sponsors give money. Aside from Dynamo there has not been a sponsor that sticks around and donates year after year. Think about that......sponsors don't see the value in sponsoring AH tournaments.......THERE's the ROOT money problem.
I look forward to seeing Mark as a long term sponsor. Maybe this can begin something positive in the sponsorship area.
Why can Foosball "get away" with charging a high entry fee (I don't know what their fees are and payout/prize structure)?
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| travis
- 08 May 2011
Total Posts: 530
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think Joe's "rich get richer and poor get poorer" comment was referring to most of the prize money going to the top finishers.
Travis Luscombe
AirHockeyWorld.com Webmaster
http://twitter.com/air_hockey
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| carolina phil
- 08 May 2011
Total Posts: 1084
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travis said: | Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think Joe's "rich get richer and poor get poorer" comment was referring to most of the prize money going to the top finishers. |
That's the way I understood it. He was saying that he does not want extra money going to Mark and I as we return to the Top Ten,
Carolina, "Oh Yeah" Phil
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| tableman
- 08 May 2011
Total Posts: 690
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jasonstevens said:
Why can Foosball "get away" with charging a high entry fee (I don't know what their fees are and payout/prize structure)? |
Traditionally their tournaments pay out much less than they bring in via entry fees. The tournaments were a profit center for Tornado, and now, promoters.
Why can foos get away with it? Here are a few theories I think may explain it:
1. Foos players are mathematically challenged, much like people who play the lottery.
2. Many foos players have a deluded sense of their chances of finishing in the money. Despite years of finishing out of the money and forking over high entry fees, they sincerely believe that next time will be different.
3. In contrast to AH, there's a higher probability that a middling or better foos player can have a great tournament and finish in the money. Whereas in AH, the chance of a player routinely ranked say, in the 20's, of finishing top 5 is practically nil.
4. The foos tournaments are fun social events, with a critical mass of babes, so players don't mind forking over big entry fees to be part of it.
Mark
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| fupersly
- 12 Jun 2011
Total Posts: 231
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travis said: | Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think Joe's "rich get richer and poor get poorer" comment was referring to most of the prize money going to the top finishers. |
You are not wrong, Travis - that's precisely what I meant. 
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