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| carolina phil
- 15 May 2011
Total Posts: 1084
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We experimented with a one game double elim this weekend, and it was fun and exciting. A blast. But, something was missing. What was that and why?
History helps: From the beginning of ah in 1973 until 1978 there were almost no matches. We all played single games in a row, maybe a two out of three sometimes; maybe a rare three of five. With the exception of Pennsylvania in 1977, I don't recall anyone talking about playing several sets of ah. Seems that Jesse and Mike Barry and Joe Campbell were playing sets about that time of four out of seven; but not four of seven sets. From California to Colorado and Texas, there were no "matches." There were tournaments of two out of three games double elimination sometimes, usually single elimination. There were lots of these tournies and one against one evenings of single game play to see who got in the most "licks." This went on for years happily.
We first heard about the idea of playing long sets from Jesse and Mike on the phone right before we met them in Houston at the 1978 National. We agreed to play three of these longer formats when they came down. Smooth Jim Bill Carter won the first two games against Jesse three days before the National and then lost 15 straight games in a five of nine, three of five match. We were rocked to the core to see our Champion humiliated. Jim never recovered and limped out of the ah picture forever. A day or so later Rolf Moore, whose style was similar to Jesse, lost a much closer match that had Jesse sweating it out; but the Doctor triumphed. Two days after the National, Jesse defeated me 4 sets to 2, if I recall. Texas learned what athletic match play was all about. It was not two or three quick games with both players firing their best Thor thunderbolts. No, as Jim's defeat showed us, there was a longer story that developed from one game to the next, from one set to the next, until the entire narrative added up to the final chapter. Each step plays a part in the drama that unfolds as the match grows, like a movie.
AH did not have to go the way it did, but the main players at that Nationals agreed that longer matches would be the fairest way to have head to head competitons between two players; better than simply playing a few games to see who could get to, say, five first, or ten first. We were hesitant to go whole hog into the East Coast Philly system of long matches; but we were young, athletic, and boned up to the challenge of playing to the Max. Over the decades, we have learned that matches allow for developement, adjustments, and corrections to be made, and traps and deceptions to be prepared along the way, creating a web of chess-like intrigue, until the final point is scored. The matches create a story flow, a conversation between two opponents, a debate back and forth, until one mouth is stopped and shut down.
Please see concluding next post.
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| carolina phil
- 15 May 2011
Total Posts: 1084
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Continuing with the missing element in Single Game play:
I am not saying that matches are good or bad, or that single game play is bad or good. I am saying that after having played some fun and exiting Single Game Double Elim ah, I know that something that sets and matches have in them is absent from the Single game or short two out of three single game contests. That something is the Reply, the Adjustment factor, the conversation and the story that a longer set or a match provides.
For example, in my one game against August Para I hit him hard for two quick points, after he scored one, he fumbled two in on himself, then he got a couple or three on me and was coming back, I scored one, he got one, and then he fumbled a point in. That was it. Over. No mas. As i did later when Donovan beat me 7 to 4, August stood there feeling like he was ready now to respond, to reply, to add in his two cents on the Table; but impossible, it was over, gone. So, you stand there, as if you have a lot more to say, mouth open with a good reply ready, but not able to be given!
So, over the years our matches have conditioned us to want and to expect to be able to find a way to respond to what someone has just done to us. Match play has taught us to take what happens and relish coming up with our own dominant reply. Losing the first set is just the first step in our developing Victory march. We know that our ah game has so much more to give and to show and to bring--and the second and third sets will be the Stage on which we will stand and deliver our very best lines!
So, playing a one game event showed me so clearly that as wonderfully intense and fun that it is, it cuts Phil off too short. It shuts August up too soon. It muffles my voice before I even get a chance to express myself.
We have been taught by tournaments, sets, and matches to feel much more comfortable having time to produce our best game, to show our stuff, to at least have a chance to fight through adversity, to respond to the threat, to perform our tactics and carry out our strategy, to play a quality game.
They say, a brief affair is ever so exciting, but a deeper relationship produces Quality play.
Phil Arnold
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| tableman
- 16 May 2011
Total Posts: 690
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Phil is forgetting that, even before 1978, the PA players were playing long matches. Often for money. It probably started with Mike Dickstein in the mid-70's. Jesse Douty started playing in 1976, as I recall, and soon after, started playing long matches with Joe Campbell and Mike Barry.
The match length was indeterminate back then. It could be 3 of 5, 3 of 5; or 5 of 9, 5 of 9. In addition to singles matches, Dickstein innovated the "Australian doubles" matches in State College, often involving a team from Philly vs. Dickstein and another local player.
By the time of the first Nationals in '78, the playing of sets and long matches was established in PA, but nowhere else. Even after that Nationals, the challenge match system was still in formative stages, and Phil wrote in a Table Talk that matches could be of various set lengths, and of various money amounts. Within a year or two we had firmed up the Ranking system, incorporated the East Coast idea of challenge matches, and settled on sets being 4 of 7, matches being 4 of 7 or 3 of 5 sets. And the idea of playing for money was dropped as well, at least for USAA Ranking matches.
Mark
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| carolina phil
- 16 May 2011
Total Posts: 1084
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Yes, I recall back East at Penn State in Happy Valley with Mike Dickstein money matches were his bread and butter. He arranged money matches with Mike Barry, Joe, and Jesse in Philly. I think as this developed, the money factor drove up the length of the matches to eliminate "chance." Also, when they practiced at Doc Watson's in Philly they played for hours, and for some reason (Hockey, Basketball?), they thought in terms of sets of games. None of us in Texas or elsewhere (except Mark) traveled back East until after the first National in 78. Mark made, I believe, one or two trips there to check out the ah scene. But from Colorado to Texas, the money aspect turned us off; reminded us of Jai Lai betting and Vegas bookies. Plus, to be honest, after meeting Dickstein and some other Pennslyvnia players in 1975 at the New York Brunswick/Aurora Toy Company Championship, we viewed them as a backwater inferior to both Colorado and Texas play. It was only later that the great Trinity of Jess, Joe, and Mke took up the sport and elevated East Coast ah to the level or above being played in Colorado and Texas. True, there was Pat Spiderman Wolf further south in Maryland; but Jim and I had tracked him down beating him in Baltimore just a few days after he won that New York tournament defeating Ron Yamanaka from Los Angeles who had beaten Mark and me, knocking me down to third place by beating me out of a chance for a $5000 scholarship by one point in New York. One year later, I hunted Yamanaka down in L.A. and drove him out of the game mercilessly on his favorite table. Mike Dickstein and his ah friends were in New York, and I don't recall any talk of playing long sets then. He must have pushed that a couple of years later. Vince S. would likely recall when the idea of long sets reared its head at Penn State under Mike. To give Mike Dickstein his due, because he did a lot for ah in those years back East, he beat me the first game I played him in New York and the last game I played him in Chicago in 80. I say "game", as in one game:) I can also say he was one of the best at negotiations and persuasion I ever met. He had early on a collection of original mallets and pucks of all kinds. He was an organizer of AH events and the world wonders what direction ah would have gone with his push of gambling matches and personality. Mark and I teamed up in order to keep the center of gravity west of the Mississippi and the sporting & regional respect dominant over the, "Hey, Bud, wanna play for a hunderd?" We wanted to build a national community of ah players who played for the joy of the sport and the love of competition.
Phil Arnold
USAA Founder
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| tableman
- 18 May 2011
Total Posts: 690
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Heh, too bad you lost your last game (so far) with Mike Dickstein. My last games with him were in the late 80's at the Bank Saloon in Boulder (home to 3 Nationals, '86 through '88). Dickstein was passing through town and gave me a call. He was pretty much retired from AH but curiously, had his old original cream flat mallet in his back pocket. I was in good AH practice at the time and Dickstein had put on a few pounds, so after a few games (which I won) Dickstein was sweating profusely and called it quits. We then reminisced a bit about the old days. :)
Mark
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| carolina phil
- 19 May 2011
Total Posts: 1084
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I believe he was in Vegas about ten years ago the same time the Natonal was going on. But did not drop by. Would be great to get some oral history on video with him about how it all began, what he did, and his triumphs and frustrations. He and Keith Foringer from State College traveled and competed in the 1979 National at UH. He defeated Karl Compton in a match between similar personalities with bitting sarcasm filling the room. Mike won. But then you woke Rolf up from a 3 to 0 deficit to run the table on Mike repeatedly in a victory. Never forget how Mick D entered the room, immediately gained the attendtion of the Texas gals and pointed to his mouth saying "See, I don't have fangs. I really don't have fangs." Soon most of them were under his spell.
Phil
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