| travis
- 25 Apr 2011
Total Posts: 530
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In order to help make the tournament more enjoyable and efficient, we have decided to try out a modified layout for the spinoff brackets in August.
The structure of all of the following spinoff brackets will remain the same: 5-6, 7-8, 9-12, 13-16, 17-24, and 25-32.
What will change will be the spinoff brackets for 33rd through 128th place. All of the players that are eliminated in the same round of the main tournament chart will be divided into groups of four, based upon their performance in the main chart and whether or not they attend the spinoff tournaments. So for example, instead of having a 16-player 33-48 bracket, you would have a 33-36 bracket, a 37-40 bracket, a 41-44 bracket, and a 45-48 bracket.
Each spinoff group of four players will be determined by the following criteria:
1. Overall finish in the main tournament
All players that are knocked out of the main tournament in the 33-48 round of the losers bracket will finish in one of the four groups between 33 and 48, and therefore finish higher than all of the players that finish in the 49-64 round of the main tournament.
2. Particpation in the spinoff tournament
All players that do not show up for the spinoff brackets will automatically be placed at the lowest possible position amongst all of the players that finish in the same round of the main tournament. For example, if one player out of all of the players that finished in the 33-48 round of the main tournament does not show up for the spinoff brackets, then he or she would automatically
finish #48, and the 45-48 group would only have three competitors.
3. Games won percentage in the main tournament (Games won / Games played)
A player that wins 12 games and loses 8 in the main draw of the tournament would have a Games won percentage of 60% (12 / 20)
4. Point scoring pct in main draw (Points Scored / (Points Scored + Points Against))
If players have the same Game won percentage, then the tie will be broken by point scoring percentage.
Note: First- and second-round byes in the main draw winner's bracket get treated like a 4-0 (7-0, 7-0, 7-0, 7-0). This prevents unfairness to players who have a seed good enough to where they skip playing an easy opponent in the opening round(s), but then are forced to play a top-level player right off the bat.
More to be continued...
Travis Luscombe
AirHockeyWorld.com Webmaster
http://twitter.com/air_hockey
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| travis
- 25 Apr 2011
Total Posts: 530
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So why make this change?
The benefits:
1. Reduces total number of spinoff matches
At least half of the players in the 65 and above spinoffs don't show up for the spinoff brackets. We might be able to get more new players to participate in a spinoff tournament if it's a small, quick, easily understood 4-player bracket. Also, having less spinoff matches makes the tournament a lot easier to manage, especially if we're hoping to get larger tournaments in the future. Can you imagine a 64-player 129-192 spinoff bracket?
2. Allows for easier and more fair handling of the forfeitures
Players that do not show up for their spinoff groups automatically get put at the bottom of the spinoff group. So, let's say five players did not show up for the 33-48 spinoff. Currently, it means there are forfeitures interspersed within the existing 16-player 33-48 chart, causing unfair advantages to players that happen to get free byes. With this new method, the five forfeitting players would automatically be ranked 44, 45, 46, 47, 48. The 33-36 and 37-40 group would be unaffected by the forfeitures, and the 41-44 group would only have three players. The top seed in the 41-44 group would earn the first-round bye.
3. Every point counts
It creates an incentive to play EVERY point possible in the winner's bracket and loser's bracket. Every Point Counts! If you are down in a game 6-0, don't just give up that last point. It may be the difference between being in the 33-36 bracket and possibly the 41-48. (Thanks, Mike C!)
4. Easier data management
I have yet to see a 65-96 spinoff bracket with all of the proper sub-spinoffs and match data. Ever. It would be a lot more managable in smaller groups.
5. Easier brackets for the new players
The novices and beginners aren't going to want to wait long times and fish through a big chart to see when they finally get a chance to play again. This helps simplify that process.
6. This system would still be able to produce a distinct list of finishes and rankings that the players had to play for.
And the nice thing is, the players still get to have the opportunity to play against other similarly-skilled players, but in a smaller-group setting where they can get to know the other three players (if they want to  ).
Travis Luscombe
AirHockeyWorld.com Webmaster
http://twitter.com/air_hockey
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| drftwd
- 25 Apr 2011
Total Posts: 70
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That is kick ass! Travis you are a true Nerd!
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| Darth_Wafu
- 25 Apr 2011
Total Posts: 117
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I like it
Nick Geoffroy
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| jasonstevens
- 25 Apr 2011
Total Posts: 176
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| So all he spinoffs will be 4 out 7?
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| stubbs7
- 25 Apr 2011
Total Posts: 582
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I like this. I would support doing away with spin-offs all together - they always struck me as unnecessary. If air hockey grows large enough, and has enough tournaments, spin-offs will become a thing of the past.
Thanks for laying this out, Travis.
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| Juggernaut
- 25 Apr 2011
Total Posts: 121
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I like this as a trial as well. Though I've only played in a couple over the years, I've always had an emotional connection to spinoff brackets, probably because of my first Nationals experience. I'd love to know what folks who play lots of spinoff brackets think about the idea of losing them, or of modifying them down to 4-man brackets.
Wil
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| travis
- 26 Apr 2011
Total Posts: 530
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Thanks, guys - I hope it works out well and everyone enjoys it. I had polled a few players for a general feeling about the format, and the response was positive.
Jason - not necessarily. We might have to have shorter sets for the lower divisions, but that depends on how many forfeits and overall players we have.
Travis Luscombe
AirHockeyWorld.com Webmaster
http://twitter.com/air_hockey
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| jsbritton
- 26 Apr 2011
Total Posts: 421
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i love spinoffs simply because it means more air hockey for those of us that barely miss making the finals :), and i of course will simply keep playing until i literally fall over in general.
... but it sounds innovative and productive in the larger scheme of things. i applaud your efforts travis, as i have always done. great work. i can't wait to see how this works and what the final opinions are after the fact.
it has always bothered me that people don't care about their spinoff. as an utter perfectionist to a fault ... i have always thought that the final results get skewed when people don't show up to finish it out. my own feelings aside ... this sounds like a move in the right direction for more important reasons.
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| Mike C
- 26 Apr 2011
Total Posts: 459
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At the 2010 World Championships here in Houston last year, Marc Sandelin and I and a few other parents were asked to facilitate the highest spinoff (maybe 49 and above). Basic words to describe in a nutshell were - numerous forfeits, exhaustion, hard to keep track of and overwhelming. This will be a much better system than the old one.
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| carolina phil
- 26 Apr 2011
Total Posts: 1084
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When you look at it, each of the four player events are actually Mini-Tournaments, consisting of 4 players competing in a double-elim tournament.
This means there will be more Finals and more Winners than the old way.
They are tournaments spun off from the Main Tournament.
Phil
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| sjrbat
- 26 Apr 2011
Total Posts: 527
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Sounds good Travis!!! I really like the automatic drop to the lower end if you don't show up!!!
Keep up the great work!!!
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| Juggernaut
- 26 Apr 2011
Total Posts: 121
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carolina phil said: When you look at it, each of the four player events are actually Mini-Tournaments, consisting of 4 players competing in a double-elim tournament.
This means there will be more Finals and more Winners than the old way.
They are tournaments spun off from the Main Tournament.
Phil |
Yep, and one cool thing about seeing them as mini-tournaments is I could see giving a small token to each winner of a Group of 4. A pin would be perfect, and they could be mass purchased making them incredibly cheap, because youd on't need to differentiate actual rankings, as these would simply signify that you won your group of four. "G4" pins have the potential to become a status symbol, or at least something that some players will chase and value, and multiples could be easily displayed (unlike trophies).
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| Darth_Wafu
- 26 Apr 2011
Total Posts: 117
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Juggernaut said: I'd love to know what folks who play lots of spinoff brackets think about the idea of losing them, or of modifying them down to 4-man brackets.
Wil |
I play in a lot of spinoff brackets and love them, although I have never been in one of the bigger ones. They seem like a nightmare. I don't think I would ever support getting rid of them altogether, but this should be a solid compromise. Plus I have played in numerous 4 man and 8 man spinoffs and enjoyed the 4 man much more. You get an opportunity to really get to know each opponent. I think I can remember every person from every 4 man spinoff I have ever been in. I don't even know if I could name all 8 from my 8 man spinoff last tournament.
Juggernaut said: | Yep, and one cool thing about seeing them as mini-tournaments is I could see giving a small token to each winner of a Group of 4. A pin would be perfect, and they could be mass purchased making them incredibly cheap, because youd on't need to differentiate actual rankings, as these would simply signify that you won your group of four. "G4" pins have the potential to become a status symbol, or at least something that some players will chase and value, and multiples could be easily displayed (unlike trophies). |
Another cool idea!
Nick Geoffroy
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| carolina phil
- 26 Apr 2011
Total Posts: 1084
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Right, Wil. That is what sold me on giving this concept a try: we keep the tournament format and present Awards to the winners (only) of each Quad.
Anybody who wins any tournament is a winner in my book.
Phil
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| KLunos
- 15 Jul 2011
Total Posts: 16
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This seems like a pretty innovative and well thought out process, Travis! I can clearly see the pros it has, though unfortunately I don't like it. I've always really been connected with the spinoff brackets, I always thought it was a really cool thing to be able to compete with even skilled players for a chance to win another whole tournament, especially when trophies were given out <although I think top 3 or 4 trophies were a bit much, a trophy, and a bit of money, for winning, would be perfect. I understand the problem of players, especially in the lower brackets, not participating or being unable to correctly run the spinoffs. I think, in an ideal setting, we would have players who could be excited about it, and maybe have a head referee or someone help run the tournies. But I also understand that the brackets are more pronounced in the lower ranks, and the brackets are smaller and almost pointless in the higher tiers, so the excitement of these spinoffs are more for the average amatuer, expert, or beginner.
I've never won a spinoff bracket I was in, and I've always been frustrated that they never ran smoothely and players had a lot less passion about it. I never understood it. But then again, I love playing and competing and I've been one of the players that take every point seriously, so this new system will give me an edge ;)
Kevlyn Lunos,
Austin, Texas
2011 Pro-C Runner-up
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| KLunos
- 15 Jul 2011
Total Posts: 16
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carolina phil said: When you look at it, each of the four player events are actually Mini-Tournaments, consisting of 4 players competing in a double-elim tournament.
This means there will be more Finals and more Winners than the old way.
They are tournaments spun off from the Main Tournament.
Phil |
I like that! Its true, though I'd prefer to have to fight through a decent number of players in order to say I 'won' a tourney in a spinoff, rather than just 3.
But, its still a minitournament!
I'm not saying I don't want this new system to happen, I know its going to be great for what air hockey needs right now, and I bet Travis will do a good job with it!
I'll just miss the old times ;)
Then again, hopefully I can improve my game to the point where I'll no longer finish in those really big spinoff brackets ;)
I also like Wil's idea of each winner getting something. Not too big or over the top, but a cool medal with a logo or something cheap, yes.
Kevlyn Lunos,
Austin, Texas
2011 Pro-C Runner-up
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