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Forums Home / Tournaments and Challenges / RE: AHPA - Setting the Record Straight ( View Older Thread | View Newer Thread)

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ajflanagan - 26 Mar 2015
Total Posts: 509

AHPA Founders, CEOs and Presidents:

In response to Brian's locked thread in an effort to set the record straight...

I think it's great that you put forth the effort to challenge yourselves in an MBA program. Book knowledge is valuable stuff and the degree serves well in certain venues where it is required to climb the corporate ladder. I think most successful and experienced entrepreneurs would probably use your diplomas as scratch paper to write down their next good idea on. There are a few things that you could stand to learn from the real world before you go off half-cocked trying to change it.

On rare occasions in running a business it is necessary to burn bridges in order to benefit production or profitability. Rarely. I've had to do it myself over the last 7+ years with 2 clients. Never is it wise to come out of the gate with a flame thrower burning everything in sight. This is compounded by the reality that you have no foundation... nothing to show the community you can live up to your words. You have nothing to offer that is better or more valuable than the USAA. Cutting the USAA out now would be like cutting off your own feet before you even get started.

Brian has had quite a few "Chris Lee's" in the last 15 years. Paxton, Travis and I are 3 of the major partners who have come and gone. All of us had big visions and big plans. Before Brian, there were other strong players operating as a business. Maybe you should have a heart to heart with Vince Schappell. He has a lot of experience. Things happen... life happens... success is not instantaneous. Partnerships fizzle. The USAA is the constant. It has 40 years of proof. Are you in it for the long haul?

It is a tall task to try and replace an organization with 40 years of history overnight. The risks are very, very high. It is an even taller task to carry the sport on your back alone into the future after you finish burning everything and everyone around you.

In the USAA, rules are meant to be discussed, voted on and then followed. If you don't like the rules, members have a responsibility to work to change them. That means discussing it with other members. Sharing your point of view. Being persuasive about your opinions. It takes work... but rule changes do happen.

You should strongly reconsider your demands in your request for sanctioning. Any other move is very risky... and the risk outweighs the rewards.

Mike C - 26 Mar 2015
Total Posts: 459

It is a tall task to try and replace an organization with 40 years of history overnight. The risks are very, very high.

You should strongly reconsider your demands in your request for sanctioning. Any other move is very risky... and the risk outweighs the rewards.

Andrew, I am putting forth my more than 25 years in risk analysis and management and say that I disagree with your risk assessment. Chris and Brian are putting forth a professional proposal to add an alternative to an organization in peril. The risk is very small in my view. It's not like taking on Microsoft, the NFL or another major organization. Taking on a neighborhood association would be more risky.

This is the USA, we are built on competition, choices and alternative view points. The rewards are great, the risk small and in the end the AH community benefits.

ajflanagan - 26 Mar 2015
Total Posts: 509

It's a stretch to say the USAA is in peril. Lacking effective leadership at the moment, absolutely. In peril... no.

Nevermind the USAA, based on the way Chris and Brian are choosing to conduct their business, I'm talking specifically about the risks associated with losing support from vital players.

A "professional sport" is only as credible as the quality of its best players. I don't quite understand the mentality that we have to have hundreds or thousands of players at an annual tournament to be deemed successful. Success these days can be measured in far more meaningful metrics. Exposure is valuable. The problem in our community is that NOBODY has cashed in on the valuable exposure we have all worked so hard to get. I guess I'm getting right back to my post about singular achievements and how nobody has really been able to snowball their successes into anything meaningful.

At any rate, a tournament without the USAA... let me rephrase that... a tournament that intentionally cuts out the USAA could potentially be a tournament without a large percentage of the top players. How credible is any sport's "world championship" without the best of the best?

carolina phil - 26 Mar 2015
Total Posts: 1084

To set the record straight why not use the ancient method where a champion from each side is chosen to battle? TRIAL BY COMBAT. On the Table.

Whoever wins, that side gets to decide sanctioning. And gets all the other sides women and kids.

We pick Billy Stubbs or Danny Hynes.

You picking Pedro or Brian?

Laughing to the Bank,

Carolina Phil

Mike C - 26 Mar 2015
Total Posts: 459

Phil, I'll take that bet if they can play in the next few days. If I hear correctly, Billy is hurt and Danny just had an operation. Colin would be my choice against any of them.

Let's get to the risk? The key players you speak of in Air Hockey right now are all over the age of 35. They are closer to retirement than they are to their next championship. The best players under 30 are Colin, Avery and Jacob.

Going back to our risk issue, the USAA is as much at risk of peril as the AHPA. The game needs competition, new innovations, ideas and promotions just to be relevant in 5 years. In the past 2 weeks the USAA has committed a good sum of $ to put up towards a world championship, the AHPA is scheduling an outstanding event in arguably the most beautiful part of the United States, there are opportunities being discussed and new innovations. Competition is good and what I do know is it can be done with a great deal of respect.

As a consumer of air hockey who has sons with huge upsides, I welcome competition as it will create opportunity for the best and brightest.

Again, I see very little risk and lots of reward!

carolina phil - 26 Mar 2015
Total Posts: 1084

Good point about Colin. He would be a great challenge for Danny and Billy either now or later in the year.

What about, I play you a match for his membership in the assocaition of the winner's choice?

But, I had better wait till I heal up from being almost twice his age. Give me till my Feburary birthday 2016.

:)

Carolina Phil

tableman - 26 Mar 2015
Total Posts: 690

Mike,

I disagree utterly with your comments on competition, which mirror what Brian has been saying. Competition is great when it comes to businesses competing against each other. That's what serves the public and makes progress possible.

But competition among sanctioning bodies? In a sport that's tiny in terms of competitive players? That's like different entities competing to be governments within the same area. That's not good, it's terrible. It means chaos and anarchy and civil war.

Boxing has had competing sanctioning bodies for decades, all with their own self-interested agendas, and recognizing their own champions. Has that helped the sport of boxing?

The NFL is the most successful sports franchise in the country. Competing teams (like competing players in AH), but a unified governing body.

Think about it. Competing promoters and venues and sponsors is good. Having competing sanctioning bodies in AH, each claiming their own "World Champion", will make us lose credibility with the public. And we have an uphill battle already.

What makes it even more senseless is: Chris and Brian aren't saying USAA rules are terrible, or that our Worlds are run all wrong, or that our refs are bad. So why are they forming, not just another promotional company or association, but their own governing body? It's clear that it's all about ego and control. They don't want the USAA board, composed of dedicated veteran AH players, to have final say on rules and procedures. And Brian/Chris seem willing to divide the AH community just so they can have that control.

Mike C - 27 Mar 2015
Total Posts: 459

Mark, I am certain you want to protect the USAA from other sanctioning bodies. The USAA has a long storied history and I personally want to continue to be a member of the USAA. BUT on the other hand, I expect that I will be a member of the AHPA also because I will want to participate in AHPA events as well and compete in their competitions. As a consumer, this is great. As a father of a son who is so far the best player of the next generation, I want the best for him.

Look at other sports. How was the NFL formed. It was formed by two sanctioning bodies that competed head to head to build it up to the point where they could merge and help create the current NFL. Did they have competition along the way? Yes. Did that competition make them better, I have to think it did.

How bout Golf.....The Royal and Ancient Golf Association, The PGA, The PGA of America, The United States Golf Association, The Asian Tour etc. They all coexist together TODAY!!!! to the benefit of all the golfers.

Tiger, Rory, Sergio etc. all play in Royal and Ancient sanctioned events (The British Open), USGA sanctioned events (US Open), The Masters and the PGA Championship (PGA of America sanctioned events). Do players even think that they are destroying the history of the game if they are not competing in events sanctioned by another sanctioning body? Hell No, they respect the history of the game and compete for the love of the game and the living they can earn. The different sanctioning bodies play by many of the same rules, but have a few differing rules as well, but it is still golf.

Phil gives an example where Danny and Billy would play exclusively for the USAA against Brian and Pedro of the AHPA. Does the USAA have exclusive rights to Billy or Danny? What if they want to play in the AHPA events? What is Billy and Danny's incentive to play only for the USAA? Billy and Danny are players and may want to compete in the best venue possible so they can promote the sport they love and earn more money. What if Brian wants to compete in USAA events, are you going to stop him? Why would you if he comes in and respects the USAA rules.

The history and nostalgia of the sport will always start with the USAA, but other competing sanctioning bodies should be able to exist in Air Hockey as they do in other sports and make the game better for all.

TWeissman - 27 Mar 2015
Total Posts: 210

Respectfully, I do not think those analogies work.

The NFL merged because the opposing sides saw they were splitting the pie unnecessarily and that a single sanctioning organization was better.

In such a small fringe sport like AH, unity is even more helpful.

I do think Mark has a pretty clear analysis of the motivations here.

That said, the USAA intends to just keep on keeping on.

Take care...

Tim

- 27 Mar 2015
Total Posts: 658

Good points, Tim. As well, I'm sure we all remember the XFL. All sorts of odd and different ideas that only took credibility away from the game. Their nutty xtreme owner, Vince McMahon and his league barely made it through one season.

fractalzoom - 27 Mar 2015
Total Posts: 201

I guess I just don't understand why the AHPA needs to exist. The way I see it, it's a "Player's Association" currently run by tournament promoters. If the CO tournament gets sanctioning by the AHPA, the promoters are going to be held accountable to themselves.

I understand eventually the idea is for it to be more democratic with executives voted in (maybe I'm wrong). I guess since the USAA already has this model and Chris and Brian have removed themselves from it, why would they allow themselves to potentially be out-voted like before? Or is it to be a [strike]dictatorship[/strike] top down CEO centered hierarchy?

And my impression of what the AHPA will be is that it won't be any different than the USAA other than the people/leadership that comprise it.

I guess I don't understand its need to exist.

For instance, I thought Chris made some very good points when he was running for President of the USAA and had some ideas for growing the sport. As far as I remember, none of the ideas required backing of any organization - it was all stuff Chris could do on his own, and did do some of it with last year's tournament.

Right now, I'm hosting weekly tournaments in Chicago and we have some new regulars coming out every week. I don't need the backing of any official organization to do so.

Ultimately, I guess I don't see the point.

Regardless, if someone holds a tournament and give me the opportunity to play great players - I'll consider going.

ajflanagan - 27 Mar 2015
Total Posts: 509

Sometimes logic just ain't logical enough. It's clearly a power thing. Logic or the "best thing for Air Hockey" has nothing to do with it.

Pedro Otero - 28 Mar 2015
Total Posts: 269

carolina phil said:

Phil, why you assume i will be available to defend the AHPA?

I just readed tims post where he announces that the USAA will not sanction the AHPA event. I believe its a sad situation, which happened in venezuela in 1996 and killed the sport here for more than a decade. As someone said, its not a good idea to divide a little group as we are.

Im not a USAA fan but i must recognize that it gave stability (and many other things) to the sport, even since before i was born.

TheAirHockeyGuy - 28 Mar 2015
Total Posts: 472

To the USAA Board Members,

I have absolutely no intention of trying to convince any USAA Board Member that they should not support the USAA. If you are happy with how the USAA is structured, how it handles things, and the progress it has made over the past 40 years, then absolutely continue to support them. It would make zero sense for me to try to recruit people that are happy with the way things are because those people obviously don't share the same views I do.
In response to Dan and his comment about nothing stopping me from doing what I want to do and not needing the backing of an organization. I have zero motivation to put my time and effort into things that the USAA doesn't find as important as I do. Also, I have zero desire to just do it myself. I would rather surround myself with high quality people that share my beliefs and work together as a team towards a common goal. A significant percentage of projects fail due to a lack of leadership buy in. If people truly believed in the ideas I presented while running for president, they would have voted for me for president. I'm perfectly fine with the fact that I wasn't elected president, it was a message to me that the majority of USAA Board Members were not on the same page as me. Sure, some people will say that the only reason they didn't vote for me was because I couldn't physically be at the election (due to family and work obligations). Honestly that's just another belief held by some of the members of the USAA Board that I don't agree with. I'm not talking about starting a weekly here, I'm talking about transforming how an entire organization operates. Brian and I have spent more of our personal time over the past 6+ months on air hockey than all of the past 5 board meetings combined. I'm sorry you don't understand why we are doing this and I would be more than happy to call you (or anyone else for that matter) and explain more if you truly care to know. Anyone can feel free to send me a pm or email and I'll call you as soon as I can find the time.

Chris Lee
Co-Founder, CEO
Air Hockey Players Association (AHPA)

TheAirHockeyGuy - 28 Mar 2015
Total Posts: 472

In response to Andrew. The only real risk here is that Brian and I put our blood, sweat, and tears into what we believe is going to take air hockey to the next level and we receive no support from the players. In my eyes, if we do not have over 200 members by the end of next year then I will not be happy with the progress. There are tens if not hundreds of thousands of people that play air hockey that we have never connected with. As much as I value the current player base, the risk of losing 100 so that I may connect with thousands is well worth the risk. Obviously I don't want to lose anyone but I know that is probably not possible. As far as your "40 years" argument, that falls right in line with what the USAA values so I'm not surprised at this belief. The USAA has existed for 40 years, yes. I also acknowledge that in the distant past, it absolutely made valuable contributions to the sport. However, just existing isn't enough. I can walk down the street and tell 1,000 people that I am the AHPA ranked #1 player in the world. Or, I can tell that same 1,000 people I am the USAA #1 player in the world. Do you know what the odds are that their response would be different to one over the other? Probably one in a million, and that's being generous. What good is that 40 years if nobody even recognizes your brand has any value outside of your 100 members? Just like I don't agree that "x" number of events or "x" number of years means you should be able to make decisions regarding an organization, I don' think being in existence for "x" number of years makes you the best solution for the future.
If the USAA feels that everything they do is just fine the way it is and that what we are doing is wrong and doomed to fail, then really the USAA should just sit back and let us fail in peace. I would rather fail doing something I am passionate about and believe in then continue to just go along with what everyone else is doing and accept that this is just how it's going to be. In the words of your president "the USAA intends to just keep on keeping on." I'm sorry, that's just not good enough for me. If you're fine with that, by all means, keep on keeping on. We are choosing to find a different way. Numerous people with good ideas have either abandoned air hockey or given up trying to invoke any impactful change. We are not giving up, we are going to find a way to make our changes happen. There is more than one "right way" of doing things. The USAA way is not the only way.

Chris Lee
Co-Founder, CEO
Air Hockey Players Association (AHPA)

TheAirHockeyGuy - 28 Mar 2015
Total Posts: 472

To the players,
I have no desire to put players in a position where they must choose one organization or the other. That is why the AHPA will recognize USAA events regardless of if they recognize ours. We will also recognize all of the history attached to the USAA. All that I ask from the players is that you give us a fair chance to show you what we can do. We want air hockey to be a mainstream sport recognized by the world. We are going to do everything we can to make that happen. Without players we have nothing. It does us absolutely no good to try and force people to do everything our way, even if they disagree. Brian and I are well aware that in order to have the support of the players, we have to give them a product that they want, and that is what we fully intend to do.

To everyone,
I am extremely disappointed at the negativity from some of the people that we consider our "air hockey family." Brian and I have sacrificed our time and energy to do something that we feel can take our sport to the next level. Getting criticized for doing what we are passionate about and what we believe in is pretty disheartening to me. What if I had told Mark Robbins that he was crazy for buying Shelti / Gold Standard Games because he was going up against Dynamo and I didn't think he would ever win that battle? He may not care what I say, but what kind of person does that make me for trying to crush someone else's dreams and aspirations. I would rather you just say "Good Luck", something that some of my actual friends on the USAA Board have said to me. I greatly appreciate the encouraging words from those individuals. This experience has shown me who my friends really are. Brian and I have put ourselves in a position to fail miserably and throw away hundreds or thousands of hours of our own time. Time we could be spending with our families or enjoying other hobbies. Obviously we have no intention of failing and we will fight until there is no fight left in us. Brian and I have stepped off the cliff to do what we believe in and we fully plan on succeeding.

Chris Lee
Co-Founder, CEO
Air Hockey Players Association (AHPA)

TheAirHockeyGuy - 28 Mar 2015
Total Posts: 472

These posts will unfortunately likely create just more negativity and I apologize for that. This is just something I felt I had to say mainly for myself, not the organization I represent.

Chris Lee
Co-Founder, CEO
Air Hockey Players Association (AHPA)

carolina phil - 28 Mar 2015
Total Posts: 1084

Pedro, after I typed your name, i thought, "Oh No! Pedro would probably win!"

Just having fun fighting "windmills."

Or, was I trying to lure you out from your siesta away from AH and back to the Table?

Sure hope you will consider coming to Houston in the Fall for the World AH Championships!

We are all a dysfunctional family; but Family.

By the way, they found Cervantes's tomb in Madrid, Spain recently, and in it, I believe, was an AH mallet waitng for a Son of Spain to reach out and grab again!

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-31852032

Pedro Otero said:

carolina phil said:

Phil, why you assume i will be available to defend the AHPA?

tableman - 28 Mar 2015
Total Posts: 690

Chris,

I have been nothing but supportive of all your efforts in the past to build AH. The only thing I've not supported is you and Brian's decision to create a players association/sanctioning body which is competitive with USAA, and is hierarchical rather than democratic.

Nothing in your posts counters what Dan Meyer said, which is: all the great ideas and promotional plans you have, could have been done within the very open USAA framework. You could have built brand recognition (what do you think I'm trying to do with GSG?), reached out to the AH-playing millions, and still followed USAA rules/procedures, which by and large YOU DON'T DISAGREE WITH ANYWAY.

And not being elected USAA president didn't interfere one iota with your ability to promote AH. Do you know that in the whole history of USAA, I never served as USAA Prez (or board chairman as we used to call it)? It hasn't stopped me from dedicating my business career and life's work to AH. Andy Yevish... Brian Accrocco... Michael Rosen... all promoted AH in many ways over the years, and it had nothing to do with being USAA prez or not.

Further - at the last board elections, board members suggested you run for one of the officer positions, like VP, and work your way up to prez, since you'd never been an officer. You said No, you wanted USAA prez or nothing. Had you accepted VP or other, by now you would probably be in line to be elected prez.

goran - 28 Mar 2015
Total Posts: 428

Chris would have won VP for sure.

TheAirHockeyGuy - 28 Mar 2015
Total Posts: 472

tableman said:

Honestly I have no recollection of running for president based on a platform concerning promotion. The blog I wrote prior to running deals mainly with changes to the constitution and structure. I have always felt that the USAA was in no position for growth until it cleaned up its infrastructure and got back to basics. I just don't even see my self telling the USAA that it needs to get bigger. I have always believed that the USAA needed to heavily focus on the boring procedural stuff before it even considered growing.

Chris Lee
Co-Founder, CEO
Air Hockey Players Association (AHPA)

- 28 Mar 2015
Total Posts: 658

The year or two before, Chris ran for president without even being eligible, and continued to do so even after being informed that he was ineligible. The fact that the next year that it was all or nothing with being president or not was puzzling. What's so bad about VP? With that kind of thinking in mind, it might be more understandable to see why there was a breaking away and a starting of a new organization that Chris has complete control over with Brian. The USAA has its rules in place and they need to be followed by those who want to respect them. If certain people want to start an organization and have complete rulership over it, and not have a real diplomatic way of doing things, have at. Based on some history and some things seen, that appears to be the case. Good luck with your pursuits.

tableman - 28 Mar 2015
Total Posts: 690

TheAirHockeyGuy said:

I do recall that you wanted to have a smaller board, or superboard, elected by the main board, which could then make decisions more efficiently. There were other procedural changes as well.

I'm not saying your ideas were bad, but I didn't see them as crucial to the growth of AH either. Smaller ad hoc groups within USAA form all the time to get things done. A lot is happening right now in USAA and we have you and Brian to thank for it.

TheAirHockeyGuy - 28 Mar 2015
Total Posts: 472

tableman said:

TheAirHockeyGuy said:

I'm glad to hear it Mark. It's unfortunate that it took something like this but I welcome seeing some sort of progress from the USAA.

Chris Lee
Co-Founder, CEO
Air Hockey Players Association (AHPA)

Davisl - 28 Mar 2015
Total Posts: 168

I'm pretty uninformed to what is happening here, but after reading some of the posts, as someone that has played in probably more USAA events since 2000 than anyone, can I get a couple of basic questions answered? And no, we should not take this offline, if the USAA is transparent, it should easily be able to answer these questions:

1) If the USAA is just a rules and sanctioning body, then why does it need to collect a $300 sanctioning fee?

2) What does it do with this fee? What does it do/has it done with all the member dues that it has collected and all the $5 tournament fee surchages?

3) I don't get involved in politics, but as a consumer and having paid USAA dues in the past, I would like to know if this money is all accounted for and what you have done with it? To my knowledge, the USAA is a non-profit organization.

Like the vast majority of the players, I do not attend any USAA meetings, so please enlighten us on what we have been paying in to. What are the funds used for?

ajflanagan - 29 Mar 2015
Total Posts: 509

I'll take a stab at it Davis.

The USAA is not a non-profit organization. The process of applying to be a non-profit is a lengthy and expensive one. It is probably something worth looking into. Remember though, even non-profit organizations have revenue and expenses.

I wasn't around when the USAA voted to start collecting dues, so I can't tell you what the reason was at that time. Believe me, I've been questioning the purpose of the money for a long time, too. Particularly because the numbers weren't adding up if sanctioning fees and dues were collected since inception. For a while there, the USAA funds were literally kept in a shoebox.

Since then, Phil got the USAA fiscally straight. We have a bank account and all the finances are accounted for. Nobody can just take money out for a trip to Vegas or anything like that ;)

At present, the USAA has enough money in the bank to get out of a jam... which we are now in. You see, the USAA has a responsibility to ensure the community has at least one USAA sanctioned World Championship every year. That responsibility was levied by the USAA members... Air Hockey players. People like you and me.

The conundrum really is that the USAA has that responsibility, yet it doesn't really have the infrastructure in place to make event production viable. Why? Well, we haven't had to. To date, private promotional groups have taken the bull by the horns and produced some pretty great events. By following a few simple procedural things, they got a USAA "stamp of approval" and in turn, the World's best players came out to battle.

The way I see things, the tides are certainly turning. I think there is a lot of confusion among players regarding what the USAA's responsibilities are versus what promoters offer.

To put it as simply as I can, the USAA is here to ensure events live up to certain basic standards.

In the case of AHPA, they are trying to push the boundaries of what the USAA will consider "basic standards". They drew a line in the sand and said, here... this is what we will do... will you sanction us now?

This puts the USAA in a sticky position. First, it's a democratic players organization. So, we obviously have to get a consensus from the players and majority rules. However, more importantly, if the USAA gives in to the arm twisting and makes these fundamental procedural changes now in order to sanction their event, it sets precedent. I don't think that's a road the USAA is willing to go down.

So... what's the money for?

Currently, the USAA needs a solid web presence. As a active voting member, I'm pushing hard for the funds to be used to hire a web developer to get us where we need to be. Additionally, the funds are available for times exactly like these. The USAA will likely have no choice but to put on it's promoter hat this year and produce an event. I know first hand that event production is expensive and requires significant cash up front to secure venue, trophies, shirts, printing, etc.

Davisl - 29 Mar 2015
Total Posts: 168

Andrew, if that is even somewhat accurate, that's a big help. Thanks for providing the info and background. I had no idea that the USAA was mandated to put on a WC event if there wasn't one. So I guess at least there's an intention/purpose for the funds collected.

tableman - 29 Mar 2015
Total Posts: 690

AF said:

"The USAA is not a non-profit organization. The process of applying to be a non-profit is a lengthy and expensive one. It is probably something worth looking into. Remember though, even non-profit organizations have revenue and expenses."

Correction: the USAA is a non-profit, registered in the state of CO since 2006. That give it legal standing in a court. USAA is not federally registered, that takes a lot more paperwork (although there's an express form now for small organizations). But if your annual revenues are under a certain amount (we are), federal non-profit status is not required, you can just be state-chartered.

carolina phil - 29 Mar 2015
Total Posts: 1084

The USAA has a small bank acount at International Bank of Commerce since 2012. No checks have been written. Only small fees have been taken out, and I personally replace those every quarter.

The money has been collected from the sanctioning fees paid by promoters and dues collected.

Since the USAA by its Constitution has a mandate to run at least one National/World tournament each year, we have thought it good to have money in our account should the need ever arise to support such an event. Together with entry fees we could run one, and may have to now that we are under the gun to do one in Houston in the Fall. But, also I will be fundraising locally for location, tables, monies, etc.

The main job of USAA is to protect our Rules and Procedures and have a Nationa/World Tournament. By letting all who want to participate in meetings and become in time active members with voting rights, we protect the sport from being used by business interests who may find ways to alter our Rules and Procedures.

No one appoints AH players as members of USAA. It is every AH player's right to be a member once they qualify by participation (minimal criteria) and ask to join.

Our vision has been to keep power in the hands of players, both good players and bad players, both east and west, north and south, national and international.

Though imperfect, that model has kept the sport played the way we players approve for 40 years.

We need Promoters to help us grow the sport. But, USAA controls the Rules and Procedures.

Best,

Phil

andyy - 18 May 2015
Total Posts: 14

I wanted to address Mark Robbins's example of boxing. Before we had alphabet soup sanctioning bodies, there was very little money in boxing, and major controversies as nobody could agree on who were the top contenders. Champions would sit on their title for years on end sometimes, and there was nothing anyone could do.

When different sanctioning bodies got involved, often with relations to different promoters, the number of fighters in each division who had and could fight for championships increased. That created actually more championship level fights, for more money and set up unification bouts to settle disputes as to the real champion in the division. Debate and controversy over who is better than whom is good for the sport. More action is better.

I don't see any reason why a competing organization to the USAA wouldn't be a good thing. I think it would also help the USAA be better..

Wouldn't it be a great thing if both organization succeeded?

The thing that I think is the main issue with this whole thing is that there is a perception that as a promoter doing something in air hockey, there are an entrenched few people (and sometimes the identities and roles have changed) who the promoter worries they will get bullied by to do things that are not in line with their own vision of what is good for the sport.

I have always advocated letting the promoter have the benefit of the doubt. I didn't like being forced to work with certain people I didn't trust, and I don't think anybody does. In the past I have had my efforts undermined by some of these people, sometimes to the point where I felt like the event was taken from me and I had no control whatsoever. That is not compromise, and that is not working with someone.

I don't think anyone taking the time and effort to do an event should have their hands tied. They should be able to vary "traditional" procedures within reason, so long as they are transparent about it up front, and well in advance.

To be honest, I do not know if I will like the product Brian and Chris or anyone else might be putting out there... but I won't know until it happens. And if they don't get the benefit of the doubt, we could be deprived of a product we really like. And if we are not happy with it, we can make our voice known by not attending future events. By saying you will not go just because it is not a USAA sanctioned event, you are depriving yourself of an opportunity to see and try something different that you actually might like. Reserve your judgement until after you see what they put out there. My money is on them trying very hard to impress... and the USAA trying very hard to impress some more...and so on. How can that be bad?

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Forums Home / Tournaments and Challenges / RE: AHPA - Setting the Record Straight

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