| stubbs7
- 24 May 2012
Total Posts: 582
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I received an email from Michael Rosen with the following information for registration and start times:
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Doubles registration between 3-5pm on Friday. We'll start close to 5pm.
Singles registration times: 3pm - 9pm Friday and Saturday 9am - 11am. We will start as close to 12:30pm as possible.
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| ajflanagan
- 24 May 2012
Total Posts: 509
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| Isn't that information the promoter should share publicly? Is this an invitation only event? I understand some players were extended offers for entry discounts and financial assistance while others weren't. There has been no public offering of information regarding registration, fees, start times, etc. This is a World Championship?
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| fupersly
- 24 May 2012
Total Posts: 231
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ajflanagan said: | Isn't that information the promoter should share publicly? Is this an invitation only event? I understand some players were extended offers for entry discounts and financial assistance while others weren't. There has been no public offering of information regarding registration, fees, start times, etc. This is a World Championship? |
How does this help anything, Andrew? I love how you claim to have nothing but the best interest of Air Hockey in mind, then use your energy to try to disparage your "rival" promoter's tournament when you see something you don't like. It must be nice to be perfect and never do anything wrong in anyone else's eyes...
Stay classy, AC.
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| Mike C
- 25 May 2012
Total Posts: 459
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| As part of the UNAP promotion team, I want to say that I hope the event in Vegas is a great time for all and I wish my family and I could be there. I look forward to seeing many of you in July.
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| ajflanagan
- 25 May 2012
Total Posts: 509
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I was actually asking a serious question Joe. No need to get all personal about it. Man, sometimes touchy subjects really show you who your friends are.
On Sunday, I - and many other active Air Hockey players - will no longer hold a USAA ranking. All outstanding challenges for those rankings will be voided. Why? Because someone decided to hold a last minute tournament, call it a "world championship" and only disseminate the details of that event to a select group of players on a one by one basis.
I love the sport of Air Hockey and I work VERY hard and spend a great deal of my personal time and personal money marketing the sport. I take offense that an event like this can strip me and others of our rankings.
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| drftwd
- 25 May 2012
Total Posts: 70
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Will the Vegas tournament be streamed live ?
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| fupersly
- 26 May 2012
Total Posts: 231
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I'm just not going to even bother trying to reason with you anymore, Andrew - it's a waste of both of our time and effort because your only goal is to push your own agenda in any way possible, as evidenced by trying to point out "problems" and using half-imagined, half-paranoid-delusional "truths" to back up your statements inside a thread regarding details of a tournament you are quite clearly on record as not supporting. I look forward to the day you spend your energy fighting battles actually worth fighting, rather than tearing down something you personally don't find value in because it doesn't meet your lofty expectations, as if you above all people know exactly how things "should" be and are the only one who has what it takes to make perfect decisions all the time.
Your friend,
Joe
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| ajflanagan
- 26 May 2012
Total Posts: 509
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| All I'm asking for is a little communication with the players. Is that so much? Really. Is it?
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| ajflanagan
- 26 May 2012
Total Posts: 509
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For the record, I'm not the evil destroyer you make me out to be. My only agenda is and has always been to share air hockey with the world and get as many people to play as I can.
I just don't understand the secrecy at all. It's so unproductive.
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| corydzbinski
- 27 May 2012
Total Posts: 148
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Hey Andrew, BTW, love your wedding cake! From a new player standpoint, people on the outside of our air hockey world see the Las Vegas World Championships as the defacto because of it's location. I totally agree with you on the sharing of information and that should be more organized. This year's event in Vegas was announced much earlier than last year (still could have been earlier) but it was reasonable. I also went to last year's event here in Vegas and then only a few months later I was stripped of my world ranking by the Houston event. Until today i've not had a USAA world ranking for 9 months. Quite a bit worse than 2 months ;) I'll be in Houston this year but I just wanted to lay out that perspective. Overall it's great we now have two national events but all of the groups need to work together for the betterment of our sport instead of all the feuding....and that mean all parties; Houston, NY, Chicago, California, Colorado. You point regarding the organization is a good one, hopefully anyone that reads this thread can think about what they may do to help the overall organization of air hockey in the future, even if it's outside of our immediate camp. I'm no stranger to lashing out...I was frustrated after last year's Vegas event came down to the wire but in the end i'm thankful for any organized air hockey at all. We're too small to feud like this...we all have good ideas and they'll be best accepted if we express our thoughts in a positive light.
ajflanagan said: I was actually asking a serious question Joe. No need to get all personal about it. Man, sometimes touchy subjects really show you who your friends are.
On Sunday, I - and many other active Air Hockey players - will no longer hold a USAA ranking. All outstanding challenges for those rankings will be voided. Why? Because someone decided to hold a last minute tournament, call it a "world championship" and only disseminate the details of that event to a select group of players on a one by one basis.
I love the sport of Air Hockey and I work VERY hard and spend a great deal of my personal time and personal money marketing the sport. I take offense that an event like this can strip me and others of our rankings.
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| jasonstevens
- 27 May 2012
Total Posts: 176
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corydzbinski said: Hey Andrew, BTW, love your wedding cake! From a new player standpoint, people on the outside of our air hockey world see the Las Vegas World Championships as the defacto because of it's location. I totally agree with you on the sharing of information and that should be more organized. This year's event in Vegas was announced much earlier than last year (still could have been earlier) but it was reasonable. I also went to last year's event here in Vegas and then only a few months later I was stripped of my world ranking by the Houston event. Until today i've not had a USAA world ranking for 9 months. Quite a bit worse than 2 months ;) I'll be in Houston this year but I just wanted to lay out that perspective. Overall it's great we now have two national events but all of the groups need to work together for the betterment of our sport instead of all the feuding....and that mean all parties; Houston, NY, Chicago, California, Colorado. You point regarding the organization is a good one, hopefully anyone that reads this thread can think about what they may do to help the overall organization of air hockey in the future, even if it's outside of our immediate camp. I'm no stranger to lashing out...I was frustrated after last year's Vegas event came down to the wire but in the end i'm thankful for any organized air hockey at all. We're too small to feud like this...we all have good ideas and they'll be best accepted if we express our thoughts in a positive light.
ajflanagan said: I was actually asking a serious question Joe. No need to get all personal about it. Man, sometimes touchy subjects really show you who your friends are.
On Sunday, I - and many other active Air Hockey players - will no longer hold a USAA ranking. All outstanding challenges for those rankings will be voided. Why? Because someone decided to hold a last minute tournament, call it a "world championship" and only disseminate the details of that event to a select group of players on a one by one basis.
I love the sport of Air Hockey and I work VERY hard and spend a great deal of my personal time and personal money marketing the sport. I take offense that an event like this can strip me and others of our rankings.
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Why would a tournament be a "defacto" because of a location?
If your answer is because of geographics then Houston is much more centrally located in the US AND to the player base.
I would think a location centrally located AND with the highest player (by numbers and skill level) base would be the "defacto". Maybe add in that Houston has hosted a far greater amount of Worlds/Nationals/State tournaments and I think the obvious answer is Houston is the "defacto".
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| fupersly
- 29 May 2012
Total Posts: 231
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jasonstevens said:
Why would a tournament be a "defacto" because of a location?
If your answer is because of geographics then Houston is much more centrally located in the US AND to the player base.
I would think a location centrally located AND with the highest player (by numbers and skill level) base would be the "defacto". Maybe add in that Houston has hosted a far greater amount of Worlds/Nationals/State tournaments and I think the obvious answer is Houston is the "defacto". |
I don't know if Cory was thinking of location, but I one thing I can say about Houston vs. Vegas is there's a lot more for the average person to do in Vegas than there is to do in Houston. I don't think there's really much debate about that, and that's certainly a factor in many player's travel plans.
Until such time that we all play professionally on some kind of circuit and the only reason to travel is to play, I don't think that will really change.
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| ajflanagan
- 29 May 2012
Total Posts: 509
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I think the point Cory was trying to make is that because it's Las Vegas, the tournament should have inherent rights to the name "World Championship". Is that a correct interpretation?
I disagree.
There are ongoing discussions in the private USAA section of the forums about this topic. It will ultimately be up to the USAA to decide if they want to sanction multiple "World Championships". Certainly, nobody has the inherent right to the name. I'm interested to hear what was discussed - if anything - at the meeting as it pertains to the USAA offering sanctioning to multiple "world championship" named tournaments each year.
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| fupersly
- 29 May 2012
Total Posts: 231
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ajflanagan said: | There are ongoing discussions in the private USAA section of the forums about this topic. It will ultimately be up to the USAA to decide if they want to sanction multiple "World Championships". Certainly, nobody has the inherent right to the name. I'm interested to hear what was discussed - if anything - at the meeting as it pertains to the USAA offering sanctioning to multiple "world championship" named tournaments each year. |
Not to be overly blunt, but I believe those discussions belong and should remain in the USAA private section. Suffice to say it was discussed and considered better fodder for additional discussion via the USAA private forums and the upcoming board meeting in July.
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| brain
- 29 May 2012
Total Posts: 578
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fupersly said: I don't know if Cory was thinking of location, but I one thing I can say about Houston vs. Vegas is there's a lot more for the average person to do in Vegas than there is to do in Houston. I don't think there's really much debate about that, and that's certainly a factor in many player's travel plans.
Until such time that we all play professionally on some kind of circuit and the only reason to travel is to play, I don't think that will really change. |
Help me out here. I am trying my very best to follow the logic here, and it just aint' happenin. How exactly does "having something to do" have anything to do with whether a tournament can be a Worlds? If MLAH had named its event "International Open" or "US Open", would that have made a difference?
The purpose for organizing a tournament is not to give a few airhockey players with overly inflated egos "something to do". It is to draw the largest number of players possible and conduct and execute a quality airhockey tournament.
And for the record, while there may be fun things to do in Vegas, it is ridiculously overpriced at this point. If somebody wanted to find "something to do" other than you know, play airhockey and watch airhockey, well, Houston has lots to do.
We have NASA, the Galleria, Galveston beaches, night clubs, more restaurants than all other cities combined, a horse track (with gambling), and oh yes - THE LARGEST PER CAPITA COLLECTION OF AIRHOCKEY PLAYERS ON PLANET EARTH.
And the cost to come here is probably half or less than what it is in Vegas. For people who do not have unlimited income (you know like most people) whose goal is to come and play airhockey, Houston offers a much more economic and airhockey-centric approach.
Your argument is then that Vegas should be the "fun" tournament. And I coudn't agree more. Vegas is fun. In my opinion, Vegas has too many distractions. But to each his own.
Houston provides an environment of highly focussed airhockey. Its all about the puck. Our event is not designed to be the "fun" event. Our event is designed to be the "serious" event. And isn't that how a World Championship should be?
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| fractalzoom
- 29 May 2012
Total Posts: 201
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"more restaurants than all other cities combined"
I mean, I get your point - and I don't want to detract from it, but this reason cracked me up. When I imagined it, I imagined that each restaurant had to be really small - and that if I went to Houston, I could step on all the little restaurants.
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| Q
- 29 May 2012
Total Posts: 497
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brain said:
THE LARGEST PER CAPITA COLLECTION OF AIRHOCKEY PLAYERS ON PLANET EARTH.
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Like Dan, I too get your point. I don't want to speak for Cory, but he said "From a new player standpoint". For me, that's where I want to focus my attention on...how do the new players look at things, how does each tournament help our sport because each do in their own way and there are better ways to come across in bringing out the facts. I think above you mean largest concentration not per capita.
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| Mike C
- 29 May 2012
Total Posts: 459
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I don't think it matters which way everyone is interpreting the way Brian put it. The largest numbers - per capita, by concentration, by new players, by old players, by young players, by women players, by computer programmers, etc. etc. in the US are in Houston.
Right now the best player does not live in Houston. In July, we will welcome all of you to Houston to play some awesome air hockey and try to knock Billy off of the mountain. (yeah, I know, no mountains in Houston).
There are a lot of great restaurants in Houston, things to do, bets to be placed, men's clubs and churches, whatever floats your boat- there are a lot of things to do here in Houston. You won't get there by mass transportation, so have a good car if you want to have a great time.
Prior to the tournament, you will know the times, prices, ratings, and just about anything else you may need in order to enjoy the experience. If you are a fan and you'll be unable to get to Houston, we will provide you with a bracket on Airhockeyworld and videos, and live feeds. If there is something you don't know, then please feel free to ask and we promise to give you clear answers. Come and enjoy! Welcome
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| Mike C
- 29 May 2012
Total Posts: 459
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Vegas does have the largest number of foreclosed Airhockey tables. 
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| fupersly
- 30 May 2012
Total Posts: 231
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brain said: fupersly said: I don't know if Cory was thinking of location, but I one thing I can say about Houston vs. Vegas is there's a lot more for the average person to do in Vegas than there is to do in Houston. I don't think there's really much debate about that, and that's certainly a factor in many player's travel plans.
Until such time that we all play professionally on some kind of circuit and the only reason to travel is to play, I don't think that will really change. |
Help me out here. I am trying my very best to follow the logic here, and it just aint' happenin. How exactly does "having something to do" have anything to do with whether a tournament can be a Worlds? If MLAH had named its event "International Open" or "US Open", would that have made a difference?
The purpose for organizing a tournament is not to give a few airhockey players with overly inflated egos "something to do". It is to draw the largest number of players possible and conduct and execute a quality airhockey tournament.
(snip)
Your argument is then that Vegas should be the "fun" tournament. And I coudn't agree more. Vegas is fun. In my opinion, Vegas has too many distractions. But to each his own.
Houston provides an environment of highly focussed airhockey. Its all about the puck. Our event is not designed to be the "fun" event. Our event is designed to be the "serious" event. And isn't that how a World Championship should be? |
I won't try to debate all of your points as Q and Dan have already covered a few of them. However, I will say the following:
1. I wasn't trying to say that just because there's more to do in Vegas that it makes it a better candidate to be a Worlds - I was merely saying that the average player is more likely to want to travel to Vegas instead of Houston for that reason. As Mike C. noted, you can't just land in Houston and walk, take a monorail, or cab your way to every point of interest you mentioned. In Vegas, the strip contains virtually anything you could want to do packed into a pretty conveniently located and (relatively) easily accessible area.
2. I agree with your point about providing an event that is totally focused around Air Hockey, and that's great for a small percentage of the Air Hockey audience right now. But as I spoke to a number of players about recently, attendance does not directly equate to a superior tournament. If I could put together 1000 players who never played before with the top 3 players in the World, would that be better than any other event ever held? I think you know the answer to that is a resounding "no", so it's not entirely about the numbers.
3. I understand cost is a factor and that's all fine and good, but traveling anywhere is expensive these days. Right now, a round-trip flight for me to Houston would cost $437, and that's not even including baggage fees or a hotel. That's not cheap.
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| jasonstevens
- 30 May 2012
Total Posts: 176
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| sigh
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| Mike C
- 31 May 2012
Total Posts: 459
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Joe, it shouldn't be an either / or situation to have a world championships. The Vegas tournament happened and I enjoyed watching some of it when I could. I was very impressed with Billy's win and play.
I couldn't make it to Vegas for financial reasons which always ticks me off, so I have the option of playing in Houston in this event. Honestly, I was more drawn to go to Chicago for the Illinois State and played out many scenarios to how Colin and I could get there. The point I'm making is that it is great that Vegas happened. We're excited about people coming to Houston in July.
As my new career continues to develop and my boys continue to get older, I can see us packing up and taking trips to other venues in the coming few years.
The greatest contribution this year is the continued establishment and refining of the rating system. Even though I didn't make it to Vegas, I know that 'currently' my rating has me at about number 35 in the world of current players. I hope to improve upon that the coming months and look forward to whatever place I finish in the Houston Worlds.
God bless the mighty Air Hockey World,
Mike
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| fupersly
- 31 May 2012
Total Posts: 231
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Mike C said: | Joe, it shouldn't be an either / or situation to have a world championships. |
I'm not sure what you mean by this, exactly. How did what I say imply any kind of "either/or situation" with regard to having a Worlds-level event?
Again, to state it as simply as possible, I'm not debating the merit of one tournament over another, or even trying to define what the criteria for a Worlds "should" be. All I'm trying to point out is that while Houston has many great qualities, I don't see how it is "logically" any better than anywhere else in the world (aside from the player base) to be the "de facto" location for a World Championship tournament.
Furthermore, if the size of the player base is going to be the hinge-point of this argument, what happens if/when another location grows beyond Houston in terms of the local player base? Will that location then automatically become the de facto location, or will it instead be based on the quality of the tournament?
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| Petesimple
- 31 May 2012
Total Posts: 319
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Houston: "The Air Hockey Capitol of the World"
Just wanted to be the first to say it.
www.petesimple.com
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| travis
- 31 May 2012
Total Posts: 530
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Yeah, I don't think this thread's going anywhere productive anymore.
Travis Luscombe
AirHockeyWorld.com Webmaster
http://twitter.com/air_hockey
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