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| airhockeyjedi
- 28 Jul 2010
Total Posts: 176
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I agree with what Phil wrote right before this post however I don't have an opinion about Albert. As with Billy Stubbs, I believe Danny Hynes should play as a seven even if you move others down. Regarding myself, How many tournaments did I win last year... ONE... out of the many times I played! I don't view that as dominating the handicapped weeklies. As I stated prior, I was told I was moved up to a five after defeating Jason Sherman in a challenge match. Jason is a four and has been ranked right around where I've been ranked the last two WCO tournaments.
Anyway, a committee of five is a good idea to resolve and regroup the classifications of the players.
Vince Schappell
2007-2009 USAA Treasurer
USAA Member since 1980
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| ajflanagan
- 29 Jul 2010
Total Posts: 557
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Just to clarify, Vince, I think you were moved up to a level 5 at Kicks... more than 2 years ago. I don't really remember. Regardless, I agree you are playing on par with a level 4 right now.
There cannot be a level 7. It doesn't make logical sense. Level 0, 1 and 2 players are still only going to get a 5 point spot. So the only players this would benefit are level 3, 4 and 5. I'm not interested in making tournaments easier for level 3, 4 and 5 players. I'm only interested in helping the newbs. Besides, I'm confident every level 6 and most level 5's would waive their point spot against Danny if he were playing as a level 7... which isn't going to happen anyway. If they need a 7th level in Chicago, then the rest of the players are overrated and should be moved down a level.
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| Davisl
- 29 Jul 2010
Total Posts: 161
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Interesting topic to discuss, hope you don't mind if I add my perspective.
There was once a time when everyone said that there shouldn't be a Level 6. Now there are several players playing at this level comfortably. When we had weeklies, I loved playing as a 6, and my motivation was to improve and someday move to a 7 and then an 8. If I was still competing at those levels and winnning, that meant I was probably playing some sick Air Hockey. Also, we didn't limit the spot to 5 points, I personally took 6 points against a 0, just to make it fair in my opinion.
In my opinion, it would be an honor to play as a 7, it would only make me better in the long run. You would have to limit it to 6 point spot versus 0s and 1s. Even against a 6pt spot, Danny would win if he were on fire, which is what you want, someone to be playing on fire to win a tournament. Just as people didn't think Level 6 was feasible, you have to consider that maybe Danny has upped his Level, as he is demonstrating by winning so many tournaments.
The reason you wouldn't want to drop everyone lower automatically is, a level 3 that gets moved down to a level 2 is going to destroy any newbie. It is supposed to be a fair match, but moving everyone down will actually hurt the 0s and 1s chances.
Anyway, I'm sure you'll figure out the best way of handling it, just wanted to add my perspective.
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| carolina phil
- 29 Jul 2010
Total Posts: 927
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Thanks for that perspective. I see your point about a seventh point:) That would add a dynamic to it. Maybe some of feel that we are keeping pace and maybe gaining a bit on the Master Elites, so we resist shooting them up to a 7. But maybe we need to think about what fires them up, too.
Hey, let's say person X got so good that we moved him up to a 8. That would mean that he would have to beat everyone he played by two points, not just one!! If I were king of the hill and mopping up, I could see that.
Phil
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| brain
- 30 Jul 2010
Total Posts: 382
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Several people are chiming in on Weekly Tournament processes, specifically the methodology for promotion / relegation. Such interest is a sign of a flourishing environment. However, there is a right and a wrong ways to go about influencing change. :)
Let me step up on my ego soap box for a moment if I may.
While we do have a team of dedicated leaders in TAG, my very abundant time and financial contributions in this sport over the past 14 years, specifically in managing Houston weeklies, gives me somewhat of a unique perspective.
Based on this thread, an uninformed reader might think that weeklies are running horribly and in need of a major overhaul lest the sky fall. Not the case at all. SRO weeklies (in less than 2 years) are now surpassing what took 4 years at Shooters. Contrary to this ideology that it all happens by magic, the truth is that my management style is based on a formula of balancing many variables that leads to sustained growth.
And, after taking a week of vacation from my very demanding job and taking a huge load in carrying a World Championship on my back at the cost of my own performance, when I start seeing public criticism of my decisions, I feel a tad offended. Yes, there is room for improvement. However, it would have been nice to have had a private discussion, as a sign of respect. I have eared that much.
Stepping off of my ego soap box now.
So here's the deal. Having a team of people to share management is a fantastic idea. Synergy is the concept of achieving a higher result with a group of people than the sum of their individual contributions. A team that develops a good methodology can go much further than any individual. The problem is that people tend to want the power but not the responsibility. In a volunteer environment, authority is derived from investment of time and $. Period.
If we want to do this as a team, then we share not only the power to make decisions, but:
1) The responsibility to be there a high percentage (66 2/3%) of the time to ensure consistency and establish a leadership standard
2) To bring a computer to run weeklies
3) To share responsibility staying late even when out of the tournament to manage it to the end
4) To spend a certain amount of personal money (i.e. min $30) to set an example to others that we need to take care of our host
5) To send out emails and texts weekly and make regular forums posts to keep communication going and maintain the "buzz"
6) To cover an occasional entry fee for one of our less privileged players who is down on his/her luck so as to keep numbers high
7) To dedicate time and materials on occasional special events like a monthly pro/master or woman's or kids event, etc.
If the committee members are all willing to commit and deliver and be held accountable on these responsibilities, then I'm all for it.
If you are ready to serve, speak up.
Brian
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| niki
- 31 Jul 2010
Total Posts: 61
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| what just happened? everyone was having a friendly conversation about the weeklies. What offended you, Brian? No one is criticizing you or the weeklies. Everyone knows how great the Houston weeklies are. Everyone knows how much work you put into the weeklies and air hockey. Aren't the forums a place to discuss things related to air hockey? I read and re-read this thread trying to figure out what was said that upset you and I can't figure it out. No one was trying to disrespect you or criticize you or your work. Can't we just get along, stop being so sensitive, and work together to improve air hockey???
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| airhockeyjedi
- 02 Aug 2010
Total Posts: 176
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Niki made some great comments! Everyone after a main tournament will get excited and will step up with some great ideas to help airhockey grow and flourish brighter!
Back during the early 80's there were Beginners (0), Amateurs (1), Experts (2), Professionals (3) and Masters (4). So then a maximum four point spot. At that time we added Novice (1) and bumped up Amateur, Expert, Pro and Master. Now there was a maximum of a five point spot.
During the era of the Greens Wolverines, we experienced a growth spurt where players were getting better skilled in the sport. So we added a classification called Unclassified (0) which bumped up Beginner (1) and everything else above. We still retained the maximum of a five point spot. We also defined Ultra Pro as Master level for those players who were Masters prior to rank changes dued to tournaments. With this handicapped system Ultra Pro/Master are equivalent to a 6.
What is currently being used at SRO is a system that has remained unchanged since the mid/late 80's. Skill levels of players have improved, in my opinion, at the top. I feel it is time to add another level to a twenty plus years of an unchanged handicapped system. A level 7 is in order. That would give a level two another point from the elite player assuming there is a maximum of a five point spot.
TAG has a great team and I look forward to every tournament I personally play in at SRO.
Vince Schappell
2007-2009 USAA Treasurer
USAA Member since 1980
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| airhockeymarc
- 02 Aug 2010
Total Posts: 135
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Players
Per Brian, we will be playing our weeklies on Sat Aug 7th. the reason for this is that SRO will be having an event on Friday the 6st.
Marc
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| brain
- 03 Aug 2010
Total Posts: 382
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To respond to Niki: I am offended when people want authority without the related responsibily. I am a libra. tic for tac. If I am giving the time and energy and $$, then I feel I am entitled to the respective authority. If authority is to be shared, so should the responsibility. That's how I roll.
I realize that was not the intent. However, that is how is came across to me, and it hit a nerve. And I was still a little burnt out from the WC which was indescribable stress and had not completed the necessary decompression period. Perhaps the ah community might cut me some slack given that knowledge. 
Having a group manage the weeklies is a great idea. What I was trying to communicate was that the selected individuals need to understand that with the authority comes responsibility. We would not be serving the weekly process well if we did not discuss the elements of success and set expectations and boundaries. Again, that's how I roll.
Thanks to Travis, we have the means to capture the events electronically, and we don't want to see that go away. Having consistent data long term adds an element of professionalism that is critical for long term success. We want to roll out the ability to start compiling data for each player as a means to inform the committee with real data as to how each player has performed against different skill levels.
That means committee members need to have a laptop that they can bring and be willing to run a weekly in a schedule cycle and stay to the end when it is their turn and take responsibility to get their week covered if they can't make it and also be there ready to go on time.
And all the other stuff I mentioned in the previous post.
continued...
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| brain
- 03 Aug 2010
Total Posts: 382
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Managing weeklies with sustained growth requires understanding the importance of the little things that often go unnoticed but are essential to the whole equation.
Regular participation (which I defined as 2/3 attendance ratio) is essential in having regular exposure to all players so as to have an informed opinion of player skill and the appropriate time to promote or relegate. Knowing when a 2 should be a 3 is tricky. I have used winning as a measure, but that is not always the best means. Could just be a lucky week.
Having an informed team of leaders along with empiracle data truly will lead to a better and more accurate classification system. Moreover, any process is always better when managed by a productive team because the loss of one critical member does not cripple the process. A new person can be plugged in fairly easily.
I am happy to help transition this to a team-based leadership model and invite anybody who is interested and feels they are qualified to be a part of it. We had some very good recommendations already in Syed, Keith, Phil, Andrew, and Danny. All are experienced air-hockey professionals and tournament managers and very sound decision makers.
Marc Sandlin has lots of recent weekly mgmt and participation experience but is a level 3, so I think he qualifies as a good alternate (sits in if 5 committee members are not there for a meetign) until his skill level grows to 4 or 5. Niki, Vince and Travis are great alternate candidates as well. Travis has put more time into the data mgmt than anybody ever has. Vince ran weeklies in Houston for years, and Niki ran weekies in Austin for years and both have tons of experience watching players develop. All 3 have the mgmt experience qualifier but are lower in regular attendance and thus make great options as alternates.
I'll be there Saturday and think that would be a great time to open discussions and start the selection process.
Brian
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